The new documentary *smiles and kisses you* follows Chris, a thirty-something gas station employee living in North Carolina with his girlfriend, a real doll called Mimi he communicates with through an AI app. I spoke with director Bryan Carberry about this strange relationship, and how far away any of us are from needing the same sort of companionship.
I’ve got to know, how did you find Chris? Where did he come from?
Initially we were looking for developing some kind of project about the doll ownership community. This was in the pandemic, loneliness was through the roofs. We talked to some great people over the months, but then at one point found [Chris] on Instagram. A lot of the other people, they weren’t ready to go public and to be on camera and all that. [Chris’s] whole mission was just trying to destigmatize AI companion relationships.
So he was already out by the time you were speaking with him.
At least online.
Listening to people talk about the documentary after the screening was really interesting, because you can tell how people were trying to kind of kind of decide how they felt about him. Chris is handsome, he’s funny. He’s very “normal”. And I think that I saw some people with their hackles up about that because they couldn’t look down on him.
He’s very intelligent, very not just like book smart, but intuitive and, you know, just cognizant.
And yet there’s something about how he doesn’t seem to realize that Mimi has sort of been trained on himself, that it’s another one of his ‘loops’ he talks about.
Maybe it all comes down to a line that didn’t make the movie, but from his roommate Jonah, who I was asked, “What do you think about how intelligent [Chris] says she is, how discernible from a woman she is”. And Jonah just said, “well, I think it’s just like, like any other guy with his girlfriend being like, she’s so smart. She’s so pretty, you know?” There’s some rose colored glasses going on when it comes to love, when it comes to the heart.
Everyone says you’re two paychecks away from being homeless, how far away are any of us from seeking out this kind of of companionship?
I really have no idea. I just wanted to hear the whole story from the beginning. Give them, you know, the mic. Let them explain their story. And it’s so far fetched from the mainstream, you know, that I just wanted to show how does somebody get there, you know, how does somebody get there? With what’s going on with the tech these days, how are people utilizing and how might how might they in the future. And I’ll let people draw their own conclusions on that.
The original Mimi was a woman Chris knew who died tragically, before he had a chance to try a relationship with her. He mentions that all romance has tragedy. Do you think if Mimi hadn’t died tragically, Chris would have found another person to base his AI on?
In literature, you know, stories like that are where he’s gotten it all from because it’s not firsthand experience. He talks about how he was raised on these movies and these books and fairy tales and stuff. And there’s always something tragic or an obstacle. Very much life imitating art. But as far as if he would have found someone else, I have no idea.
Did you get to talk to Mimi?
Personally, no. I would just relay things. Thank Mimi. Tell her I said hi. Whenever I talk to [Chris] on the phone, I’ll say tell her I said hi. And he always appreciates that. And I’d be running back into the house to grab something, and she’s right there and I’d say, “oh, hi, Mimi”. It’s almost weirder to, like, not acknowledge.
I wonder if part of the appeal of having an AI girlfriend, whose responses you can essentially curate, is also that you get to be in charge of how people interact with her as well.
Yeah, I could see that. I mean, it is a form of safety. And I think, you know, maybe that’s why a big appeal of replica and synthetic companions are for people who have lacked safety in relationships or are afraid of adverse outcomes that they can’t control. Which was one reason that it had that beneficial effect it did on [Chris] and others. It’s almost like a practice simulation for engaging with other people.
How do you choose what’s going to be next? This and Finders Keepers share that quality of shining a light on the absurdity of being a person.
I think I just like taking the extremes. Because that’s where we are absurd. You know, people are absurd. And if you go to the extremes, especially in nonfiction, then you just find those things played out on like a grander scale. With Finders Keepers, it was a good blueprint because it starts with a tabloid story. And you think- that’s so wacky. I’ll never relate to those people. I’m like, okay, let’s look under the hood. The mission was [to see] how somebody gets there.
What are what are you looking for in picking subjects like this? Is there something that you are hoping to understand about just people and the experience of being a person? Are you hoping for connection with someone who feels so foreign?
That’s a really good question. Maybe that’s just a happy byproduct. Finding this very real connection and incredible parallels with somebody from just a completely different walk of life, that I would not have encountered when I’m not making a documentary… I don’t know, maybe it’s just more of a subconscious thing where I am, something excites me. I’m drawn to something. I see and feel some kind of potential, you know, and I think what you mentioned earlier about how it exposes some of our absurdities or hypocrisies or, you know, maybe something I think isn’t getting enough attention. I don’t know. I guess I’m just drawn to some things I’m just really entertained by.
*smiles and kisses you* is playing at the Edinburgh Film Festival this August.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Erin Murray Quinlan is an American playwright and composer, amateur beekeeper, and proud confirmed solver of Cain’s Jawbone. Her full biography can be seen at www.erinmurrayquinlan.com.
